You principle conclusions aren’t supported by your testing, particularly the claim that birdshot will penetrate as well as a slug at close range, and that fine shot will be “very lethal.”. Nate October 24, 2013 At 19:12. Show Printable Version; 12-31-2020, 11:14 AM #41. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. Open rifle sights on a shotgun are vital, and large ghost-ring rear sight is even better. But the chances of getting a physiological stop with birdshot are not high enough for it to be a primary round Rob would recommend for home defense. As demonstrated, to use it in an enclosed area like a home is actually more of a risk to anyone in the home with you. I would think it’s clear that an assailant at any of the ranges noted (and somewhat beyond) has had a very bad day if shot with birdshot of any size. Birdshot. If you’re looking for a good defensive combat dagger, the Benchmade SOCP is the right choice. And because the shotgun is such a versatile weapon and can fire drastically different types of ammunition, this leads to another dimension in the debate: Which is what type of ammo is best for home defense? Have you ever wondered which ammunition is best for home defense purposes? Rob Pincus is on an indoor range at the Bristlecone Shooting, Training and Retail Center to talk about birdshot for home defense. Let’s see. Regarding the shot that struck the wall and not the gel: All of it penetrated the front of the wall. My 12 Gauge Mossberg Shockwave is loaded with OO buck shot for my home defense weapon It may penetrate my walls but it's not going through the next-door neighbors home like a .308, 5.56, or Slug can. I cannot address this fact without reminding shooters that sights on a tactical or home defense shotgun are very important. So, all that leads to one question: Is smaller shot adequate for home defense concerns and safer for others in the house? I placed blocks of Clear Ballistics gel in front of the second wall to get some idea about what penetration would be like if a person should be standing in the hallway when the shot came through the first wall. There is no easy answer here, if you prefer 00 Buckshot use it, but many experienced shotgunners believe in the birdshot round for home defense. I built two walls, double-sided with drywall or sheetrock, whatever you call it in your part of the country. This doesn’t mean they’re ineffective against an unarmed bad guy. If you’re alone in your home or think you will always know where family members are located (I wouldn’t bet the farm on that, either), then No. Or, how about just buying some self-defense buckshot. Many proven hunting rounds will work on big game. But Number 4… This leads us to discuss No. Nobody wants to stand in front of a shotgun loaded with 12-gauge birdshot at inside-the-bedroom or down-the-hallway distances. Is bird shot deadly? If you're shooting someone in your home, it's because you view them as a threat to your life, and using birdshot, even heavier stuff, isn't the best. Knowing where others are located in the home is very important if you ever find yourself in a home defense fiasco. Birdshot at 20 to 30 feet self defense range is going to leave a softball sized hole in you deep enough to incapacitate even a person on drugs. https://www.range365.com/should-you-use-birdshot-for-home-defense Right after the much beloved 1911 pistol versus Glock handguns argument, maybe no other firearms topic enjoys as much debate as shotguns for home defense. Look at the pattern sizes of the accompanying images: In home defense situations in close quarters with adrenaline running full blast, missing is very easy to do. Thread: Bird shot for home defense? 00 buck might be the way to go — but remember how it exited from the second wall. If you have a slug to follow up, that should be the one in the chamber. Sign up for premium membership and get access to our best personal defense videos. https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/buckshot-birdshot-home-defense-lets-science Getting shot with birdshot is a bad day for anyone, but it doesn't have the "knock-down" power of buckshot or slugs. Reply. Rob fires a load of 12-gauge birdshot and the result is a very wide spread of pellets, larger than a human head size and about as large as a high center chest area. Some were murders, some were intruders in homes and a lot were hunting-related shootings — both people being mistaken for game and accidental discharges. However, keep in mind the basic shooting safety rule of positively identifying your target and knowing what is beyond it. 4 buckshot is often a choice for home defense for a few reasons. Birdshot for home defense, with its very small BBs, tends to under penetrate. 6 or No. Join Date Jan 2003 Location Livingston Co. Posts 18,745. Birdshot is going to hurt. 00 buck seems to be the most commonly used, but it can depend on tradition, what you’ve been taught and personal preference. When someone breaks into your house, they’re not expecting to walk into a load of 12-gauge birdshot. Experiments have shown a buckshot and birdshot being virtually equally effective at close range. Proponents of large buckshot will say that No. Number 8 Birdshot for home defense will be deadly. Personally, I won't choose birdshot. No. Home Defense: Federal LE Tactical with FliteControl - 12 Gauge - 2-3/4" 00 Buck 9 Pellets: 00 Buckshot: High stopping power: 20" Home Defense if over-penetration is not a concern. Retay makes a full line of the Masai Mara (named for a wildlife reserve in Kenya) shotguns in field guns, turkey and waterfowl models. to some of the smallest shotgun pellets and is often considered inadequate for defense Upgrade to GOLD membership and get unlimited access to our entire library of premium personal defense videos, receive discounts on DVDs, video downloads, and classes in the shop. But, it loses power so fast, over-penetration is much less of a problem. While there is the potential for over-penetration, which is rarely a concern for birdshot, the heavier pellets, delivered into a tighter space, generally result in a more effective home-defense round. Birdshot for home defense is something Rob has talked about a lot over the years, especially its viability as a home-defense round. The buckshot did not seem to slow down on either wall, and the pattern was about the same on the entrance of the first wall as compared to where it exited the second wall. The walls were placed about four feet apart to simulate this scenario: If you fire at an intruder in your home with birdshot loads — and miss — what happens to the first wall on impact, what would the effect be on anyone in the simulated hallway, and how would the opposite wall stand up to the pellets? Defensive Shotgun Myths: 20 Gauge is Not Enough Gun It’s at home in both the deer gun and the tactical shotgun. In general, you will find that most people, including writers from the National Rifle Association, recommend using buckshot for home defense over birdshot. I’ve shot birds that didn’t stop after a hit from birdshot. The walls were framed in 2×4 pine lumber with studs in the middle, spaced 16 inches on center, and rolled fiberglass insulation between the studs. Please try again. And just because I knew it would come up in the mind of someone — maybe everyone — reading this, I fired one round of Remington No. Learn how your comment data is processed. It produces a spread of pellets similar in size to what the birdshot did, but the #4 buckshot is a much denser pellet, which means it will penetrate into the human body, not just cover the outside of the flesh. This doesn’t mean they’re ineffective against an unarmed bad guy. Watch Jeremy Stafford explain the difference in impact between slugs, birdshot, and buckshot while he dispels common myths about each and highlights the best option for home defense. Virtually none of the No. Shooting Illustrated | Buckshot vs. Birdshot for Home Defense Fiocchi LE Reduced Recoil - 12 Gauge - 2-3/4" 00 Buck: 00 Buckshot: Low-recoil: N/A: Home Defense if standard loading is to much power for the shooter. In close-range encounters, as found in most home-defense situations, birdshot can be deadly. Adam October 24, 2013 At 19:08. Home Defense. Since the theory is kinda based on the concept of the shot acting more like a solid projectile at short range, I figured it was a good idea to measure pattern sizes before I started blowing things to pieces.Here’s what I found. Figure out the max distance you will be shooting in your house and get a load/choke that will hold all pellets on paper at that distance. There are many purpose-designed rounds to go into a shotgun, especially a 12 gauge, for home defense, for tactical use, and for armed professionals. 00 buckshot. 00 buckshot from 15 feet. If … All of the shot payloads penetrated both sides of the first wall, making a neat hole in the center of the pattern, very similar to that of a slug. How Much Is Too Much When It Comes To Handloading? A home defense shotgun is a very specialized tool so tailor it to what you need. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. Reply. Another important point is the big difference between birdshot and No. If your defensive firearms instructor is not giving you an integrated system of firearm manipulation techniques but rather a set of unconnected techniques that don't integrate well together, don't reinforce each other, and don't contribute to your efficiency by being consistent with one another, you need to challenge those techniques. The data shows that after the second wall of standard construction, you may be OK when shooting fine shot — but I wouldn’t bet the farm on it. Rob Pincus reviews the key components to a efficient reload from bolt-lock with an AR type defensive rifle. The shot then struck the Clear Ballistics gel and the second wall. Typically, your average gun owner will load their home-defense shotgun with buckshot. Second, it’s popular and easy to find 12-gauge loads. Bird Shot is not OK for home defense. Birdshot for home defense, with its very small BBs, tends to under penetrate. The tired old adage of “just point the shotgun in the general direction because you can’t miss” really needs to go away. This doesn’t mean they’re ineffective against an unarmed bad guy. 7½ shot moving at 1,325 fps. Yes, but so is a big mac but there are better choices for home defense. There is a tremendous amount of data available, from reputable sources, regarding the efficacy of birdshot, buckshot, and slugs, and the pitfalls of each. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Nonetheless, from the many internet discussions on "defensive birdshot," one could surmise there are a lot of people do indeed depend on Birdshot for home defense. This is why Rob does not recommend birdshot for home defense: it will not penetrate deeply enough to cause a physiological stop. 00 buck loads are needed to put down an aggressor. something Rob has talked about a lot over the years, especially its viability as a home-defense round. Also to be noted is the spread of the pattern at 10, 15 and 20 feet. Birdshot For Home Defense: Too Much, Too Little Or Just Right? There has been an error with your Email Subscription. Some load their shotgun first with something like the #4 shot size, followed by heavier loads such as #1 buck. Six major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. 4 buckshot. Understanding the range owner and/or…, Enter in your email and password to create a FREE account. Aided by my able assistant, shots were fired into the first wall from 5, 10, 15 and 20 feet. Birdshot can work as a self defense round at close range against unarmored targets, but it is rarely the best choice. Larry Case is a contributor to Gun Digest the Magazine. I truly feel #2 shot will work miracles for home defense,unless you live in a home longer than 100 ft.From 12 ft or closer it doesen't matter what type of … 00 buckshot as the ammo of choice, and within the effective yardage boundaries of buckshot, there’s no doubt it is effective. Do yourself a favor and buy a box of buckshot. Birdshot is for hunting birds and small game. The Warden is a tactical-home defense model and the latest of this line. Leader. We’ve shown that fine shot will be very lethal to your intended target, but it’s more easily stopped by walls inside the home. Get the 74th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. Student alert! Learn no-nonsense training tips and techniques from personal defense and firearm experts. This article originally appeared in the March 2019 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine. Remember: We’re talking about confrontations occurring in the home here, and most would be at very close range. 7½ shot. In my time of wearing a badge and toting a gun, I saw lots of people that had been shot, including many with shotguns. Anywhere. Birdshot it too lite to make one-shot stops BB or #2 shot might work. In other words, they’re much like walls found in most stick-built houses across America. It is deadly at that range. View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries View Articles I am a Forum User. Thread Tools. At self defense range bird shot is adequate to kill. 7½ shot emerged from the rear of the second wall, with the exception of one pellet. It stands ready at my bedside, loaded with 2 rounds of 2 3/4” low recoil #4 buckshot, followed by 5 rounds of 2 3/4” #00 buckshot, in case there’s more than one “uninvited” guest, or I need following shots at longer ranges. The spread on birdshot at 10 feet is not much, you are going to get hit with a “fist” of #8 birdshot, there are approximately 410 pellets. Also important here is the fact that friendlies and family members behind a wall inside the home are very much at risk if we send a load of shot their way. Fine shot, delivered from close-range tends to pattern very close together and will leave a wound much like a shotgun slug. This is somewhat intuitive information, but a payload of fine shot, delivered from close-range tends to pattern very close together and will leave a wound much like a shotgun slug. The cold, hard truth is that you can miss. At 25 yards, birdshot has decreased in effectiveness by a wide margin. Jeff Quinn ( http://www.gunblast.com ) debunks the myths surrounding the use of bird shot for home defense. These simple tests convinced me that, between buckshot vs. birdshot, a standard birdshot load is usually best for a homeowner’s defensive 12-gauge shotgun. It doesn’t mean you need those better choices. I used 2¾-inch Aguila sporting clays shotgun ammo, packing 1 1/8-ounce of No. Experiments have shown a buckshot and birdshot being virtually equally effective at close range. If in a home alone, buck might be a more potent option. Given the apparent interest in limiting excessive penetration in shotshell defense ammunition, what seems to be lacking in commercial offerings is a selection of one to 1 1/8 ounce loads at target load velocities with a payload … Birdshot for home defense, with its very small BBs, tends to under penetrate. Anytime. In addition, you’ll receive nine video downloads, two full-length classes, two skill development presentations, access to GOLD member LIVE events, and so much more! Here’s how the information on the test shots into the wall shook out. Some of you may even be surprised by what you’ll learn here! 4 Tips To Improve Tactical Shotgun Skills, First Look: Bushnell’s Affordable RXS-100 Reflex Sight, First Look: Armscor 20-Gauge VR82 Semi-Auto Shotgun, First Look: Mossberg Reserve Series Over/Under Shotguns, 6 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2021), 9 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2020), 8 Budget AR-15 Options: More Bang For The Buck (2020), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2020). Buckshot will over penetrate and possibly kill your kids or the neighbors. Experiments have shown a buckshot and birdshot being virtually equally effective at close range. Do some research. Is $5 too much to pay for your life? The entire test was done with a new Retay USA shotgun, the Masai Mara Warden. Fine shot, delivered from close-range tends to pattern very close together and will leave a wound much like a shotgun slug. While a standard wall (in testing) will stop much of the birdshot, it's still wise to consider the potential for bystander injury. Birdshot is for birds. My personal home-defense weapon of choice is a Benelli Nova Tactical, with magazine tube extension, and light. In this video, Chuck Usina, the owner of the Ancient City Shooting Range, shares his thoughts on how a new firearm instructor should go about establishing a professional relationship with a range. Birdshot really is for birds. Too much assuming, too little proving. Though the pattern of the shot had acquired some spread, often some of the shot would find its way to the victim’s vitals … and it was lights out. Tactical Shooting Drills & Handgun Training, Personal Protection Devices, Tools and Accessories, Clubs, Shooting Facilities & Associations, Interconnectedness of Defensive Firearm Training, Finding a Range to Teach At for a Firearm Instructor. Law enforcement agencies have long used No. Here is a video of #8 birdshot at 5 yard/meters. One thing always surprised me: how many fatalities actually occurred with shotguns, even at some distance. All of the testing was done with a modified choke. Next he fires a #4 buckshot round, a very popular round that many people recommend. When it comes to home-defense shotguns, one of the most commonly asked questions is, what about birdshot for home defense? The specter that always arises is the issue of using large buckshot for home defense purposes, or instead using something that’s seemingly tamer, such as in shotshells loaded with No. You’ll probably get what most defensive shootings are — a psychological stop. If you are a firearm instructor who teaches defensive shooting, you obviously need a range to teach at. First, it gives you tons of pellets. Those who chose smaller shot for these situations maintain that buckshot tends to have too much penetration and will endanger others in the house when it shoots through walls. Keeping the rifle in the ready position means that it will be easier to get the gun back into a shooting position, if necessary, when your reload is complete. It will probably stop most people. You will need to pattern it, and I'd start with an improved cylinder choke then try modified.
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