.....not when the stories for those low appearances happened decades ago and not for the more recent PC stuff he had, or anything after. That's because Final Crisis was Morrison trying to make Darkseid look impressive again. Him winning is debatable enough, stomping? Snyder doesn't use Hypertime as the big absolute of DC (he written it as World Forger making it a reality) while Morrison wrote it as a center of creation itself, to where he even thought real life was just a part of Hypertime etc. Pre Crisis and Post to a big extent aren't relevant to today outside of providing backstory and some elements here and there. Die Welt des Wissens präsentiert von Terra X Bitte fülle alle Pflichtfelder mit * aus. Regular Darkseid......hehe. In other words that the set of powers correleate with the tier of a character. The closest concept to it was Kirby writing Darkseid as more of a embodiment than a actual character. I don't think Terrax is historically as terrible as DS when it comes to jobbing. The comic states it to be a big gap after the fight with the Earth 2 group, lol. I don't understand how a character having a set of powers different from one another is a reason that both characters are not on par each other. Still failed to provide even a single evidence to support this claim. The "scan" of what Kirby was trying to convey? Like Hulk's shook infinite dimensions in a big outlier fight, but that doesn't really...do much in the grand scheme of things. It obviously means that all DC publications are revelant. New 52 is not above star level. Both your Hulk and Thor exemples have nothing to do with characters like Darkseid, Hermes, Monarch, etc. And, yes, Convergence did prevented the destruction of Pre-Crisis cosmology in a dimension outside the local Multiverse. There was a second Terra in … Darkseid overkill. I would say that the after-effects of Darkseid's death only affected the Bleed, since there is no evidence that it affected all of Creation. And the power cosmic gives him decent matter manipulation and teleportation. Like Hulk's shook infinite dimensions in a big outlier fight, but that doesn't really...do much in the grand scheme of things. @kuuzo: Few of the showings aren't retconned tho and Darkseid only wins if you take him to be multiversal literally, theres no in between, there is no showings in between, either its multiversal of planet level guy. He namedrops Hypertime as the term in particular when discussing how it impacts on the real world. Ok, this seals the deal, that alone makes Darkseid losing to Terrax.. @byondeon: Darkseid with no powers? ......because Grant Morrison picked the concept back up 20+ years later for a one shot event and then was subsequently dumped again when N52 came around? ......because Kirby didn't write him as mere individual but a manifestation of something greater? How this exemple is comparable to Darkseid which happened because of his death? So this encounter is not even a low showing. "useless" being stuff you admitted to not mention? Uxas and Thanny can hurt each other, no question about it, but the Eternal just hurts more. @applekidthethird: are you saying I’m wrong?? At least five years in-between. Morrison was the only writer who thought of him as something with "True" Darkseid, even if none of his other writers took that seriously after Final Crisis ended, so the retcon didn't really stick. Galactus vs. Darkseid : The Hunger - Set during the time period when the Silver Surfer is Galactus' Herald. I debunked your own point by using the character in your own exemple, nothing more difficult to understand. 1 Description 2 Interlude 3 Darkseid 4 Thanos 5 Announcement 6 DEATH BATTLE! It can hurt characters more durable than Darkseid. Grant Morrison only took Darkseid's avatars on a other level, retconing all his past apparences. Genis-Vell was originally "born" at the age of thirteen after his mother Elysius used DNA from the original Captain Marvel to conceive a son. I don't understand where you're going with this irrevelant point, but the fact is that current DC state is not your hypothetical future state on DC that you are using as a point in this disscusion. In DC cosmology, Creation has a first meaning related to the Bleed based on the Map of the Multiverse. Since Superman has better feats. That being said, how it is even relevant considering the fact that Darkseid was unaffected by COIE. Rebirth (which as far as low showings go, has remained pretty consistent). Even if we just include Thanos vs an Avatar of Darkseid, the Big D still absolutely destroys. Therefore, it is an evidence eligible to be taken into account to explain that it was not Darkseid when Dr Fate fought in DeMatteins Dr Fate run, for exemple. You'll have to spell it out better. Every comic "reboot" ends up being a alternative future or a different timeline. Very bad example, since Superman showed to stilll using Torquasm-Vo agaisnt Eradicator. Darkseid corrected the issue of properly showing destruction. The whole concept of that is based on literature and knowledge of higher DC cosmology which I dont have. Superman could probably beat Terrax too. The "answer" had nothing to do with the point of the claim. There was no separate Pre Crisis verse out there that was established. See more ideas about darkseid, dc comics art, dc villains. You have to show what fundamentally changed from Grant Morrison's Hypertime to Scott Snyder's Hypertime by providing evidences. Terrax, however, is tricked and defeated by the Human Torch, and leaves with a victorious Galactus. Terrax the Tamer is a cosmic supervillain in the Marvel Comics universe. Darkseid didn't have the avatar concept etc. Which would put him below planet level. Die eingegebenen Passwörter stimmen nicht überein. as the latter case is a potential feature, not necessarily related to power, of the character that is displayed under certain circumstances, whereas the former case depends only to what extent the writer wants the character to be powerful. Like, has this happened outside of this singular fight, and if it hasn't, can you just say it was due to Racer and Seid crashing together, not just him dying? 9 Darkseid vs Galactus In 1995, John Byrne penned Darkseid vs Galactus: The Hunger , which saw the Devourer of Worlds arrive on Apokalips. Still no evidence supporting such claim? ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. None really had beyond the reference you did make, ye. So these stories are still relevant. Good try, but no. Controversial and certainly not consistent. Should be noted that Seid needed assistance to actually try to finish Monitor off and failed. Then, it makes sense that he is able to be one par with Darkseid based on such statements. So, it would be a fallacy to equate DC Creation to other fictional cosmologies, in which there is not a single indication of what Creation most likely stands for in their cosmologies unlike DC cosmology. Yeah......this isn't True Darkseid. not later PC appearances where the authors made very sure that it WAS Darkseid. Lmfao comparing Elaine's Godhood, when she was as powerful as the Presence, with random god's godhood. The point? He even says in the vid that time in comics would "bend" at points and create different "lines" in which different realities would exist and would at times cross over but then go another way, which doesn't go with your notion at all. But Superman did beat up Darkseid and one time he had 2 shotted him. Also, it doesn't need to be universal to beat Darkseid as Darkseid isn't that durable. hes weak af, always loses to that weenie post crisis superman. Snyder doesn't use Hypertime as the big absolute of DC (he written it as World Forger making it a reality) while Morrison wrote it as a center of creation itself. I don't know how is this relevant to the Dessad retcon. New 52 is multi-planet at best. Care to give me any feats I may have missed? Then why present it as a universal excuse then if it's only supported to be early? So you were just discussing about how a character would need to survive the "creation shaking" stuff when Seid died but you WEREN'T actually talking about him. Not to mention it is a straw man, as she was talking about how poweful gods are, nothing more that you are trying to imply. Mr. Anti-Monitor had the edge over Darkseid in their encounter by having the Anti-Life Equation. Don't even see the point, as Hypertime is part of DC cosmology since Kingdom. Bonus round: Grayven vs Terrax. It does not explain all Darkseid low apparences, but still explain nonethless. Every comic "reboot" ends up being a alternative future or a different timeline. Not sure how that works? That being said, if I had to chose between the two opposite extremes, I lean over Multiverse based on the evidence I have that DC gods (gods in general) asserting that they are not just star tier. But to reply to your question, it is not the only reason, but gods can scale each other based on their level of being as Elaine Belloc implied it once she reached godhood: Elaine Belloc stated that the scale of power of the gods is far too great for there to be no consequences (comparing such consequences to Mansions of the Silence destruction because of Lucifer mere presence) , as "the Universe is an ant" once one reaches godhood. Good try, but no. until Morrison picked it up and completely updated it, making it a far different concept. @robertmiles1: You are speaking as if PC Superman is weak. So, DC gods likely win this. http://comicsbulletin.com/said-uniquely-original-grant-morrison/. The son of Krypton may not be supernatural in the conventional sense... but he's the focus of millions of minds and hearts that loook him as the embodiment of their faith, belief and hope-- creating a mass of psychic energy around Superman... What you say is not universal, since it depends on the characters. If she was talking about her own godhood, she would not mention "gods" about power scale. Not other things, so you cant just put all their stats equal. Agreed. Convergence happenned in the dimension. But I'm still waiting the evidences I requested based on your own standard: You misunderstood it. Then you recall it wrong, as Phantom Stranger explained that Superman was able to damage him because he is the embodiment of an abstract/idea. The official Marvel page for Terrax. He’s far better than planetary. Same with the Space Punisher Watchers or the Cosmic Frogs. "scales of creation shaking"......quantify it? Nothing new. Hypertime is a Morrison concept that again, gets picked up and off by whoever is in control. Therefore, it supports what I articuled in my previous posts, on the fact that Darkseid did not rest for years, as you claimed, but was still on the hunt for Kayio and encountered alternative versions of Superman along the way. Finally, did you read my post that Superman being on par with the gods does not have necessarily have to do with power? Also, it doesn't need to be universal to beat Darkseid as Darkseid isn't that durable. It's intended to be the big bridge between them ofc, hence "big absolute" being used. Terrax can keep up a fight for about 10 seconds before dark seid goes “meh I’m bored” and shreds him, if terrax has full power cosmic it’s a different story. So basically just rock/paper/scissors? When did Darkseid fight Superman solo post Flashpoint? Not exactly correct there either. Also, it doesn't need to be universal to beat Darkseid as Darkseid isn't that durable. I may agree on this (I have to re-read all rebirth Darkseid apparences). Not exactly. Tyros was originally the dictator of the small city-state Lanlak (originally called Terran) on the world of Birj, a moon of the gas giant Marman in a solar system eighty thousand light years from earth. Right right. I wasn't even talking specifically about Darkseid . It's obviously the one that these businesses always take ofc. Darkseid vs. Thanos By OmnicidalClown1992 Watch 49 Favourites 41 Comments 2K Views DC vs. Marvel. Seid and him were fairly equal until he choose to use Black Racer to try and tip the scales. How do you realistically put that into a timeline? It's really a question? What if, in addition to listening better, you read better? Convergence was supposed to have stopped COIE from happening by the end of it (which would render everything after Pre Crisis to be not canon) but that hasn't taken off yet. This is to emphasize that New 52 Anti Monitor has not as much low showing as his previous versions. @professorrespect: they write him at multiversal when it comes to some stories Final Crisis being an example, however when he fights in Superman comics such as during imperiex war he is shown to be Superman level. Tyros ruled through the use of his limited power over earth and rock. No matter where we power scale terrax to be, that dude isn't gonna be doing anything to Darkseid any time soon. He later becomes an enemy of the Avengers, Silver Surfer and the Guardians of the Galaxy. "Stuff" that did not even kill Darkseid in their encounter, And speaking of "stuff", how about you provide evidence foy unsubtianted. 2 #3 This is a point that was not even addressed in the first place, but that you brought in. This claim is inaccurate (didn't go well with other writers and was basically ignored) , since another writer, who wrote Anarky, also used the idea introduced by John Byrne that Darkseid did use avatars. Predator is the embodiment of love, but street tiers have hurt it. I'm pretty sure Seid needed 5 years to recover from the beating he took from the League in JL Origin.... Who drained a ton of populations (took him a few years, in fact) and obviously wasn't that amazing stat wise. "None really had beyond the reference you did make" when the writer who mentionned it did it after it was introduced in John Byrne New Gods run? And as Hypertime heals, we'll likely experience flashes of them-- and even alternate pasts-- in pretty epic fashion. I'd suggest reading the comic. It becomes "irrelevant" depending on the version of Darkseid used in a vs thread. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90bdtAElbRk. It's only considered as such by some because N52 Mobius has next to nothing to scale from apart from the Darkseid fight. I think not. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features @professorrespect: Definitely he is more consistent. Re-read my previous posts, I did not present it as "a universal excuse". Darkseid was imprisonned in the Source Wall in New Gods 1995 #10, until he was released in Jack Kirby's Fourth World #18. Current Darkseid lost to Sups solo and has remained a terrible jobber. They all have different abilities. Annihilus, a native of the planet Arthos, is the ruler of the Negative Zone and a longtime foe of the Fantastic Four. and was basically ignored) , since another writer, who wrote Anarky, also used the idea introduced by John Byrne that Darkseid did use avatars. It does agaisnt characters being embodiment of an abstract/idea. There is no reason to think of Darkseid as star level in durability. So this is not a point to be take intobased on how DC manage their canon. In Post-Crisis, the real Darkseid came back after being released from the Source Wall, I don't understand where you're going with this irrevelant point, but the fact is that current DC state is not your hypothetical future state. I haven't read your other posts and quite frankly I don't take uncited material seriously. You do not even realize how it supports my point, as characters embodying an abstract/idea are not necesserally more powerful than another characters, but can ignore this difference in scale of power depending on the abstract/idea they embody and confront. Also, being a god have no bearing on your powers, considering that Volstagg isn't universal and he is literally a god. That doesn't mean they themselves are multiversal, just that they are inherently connected to the structure of the cosmology etc. Darkseid is planet to star level consistently shown. In other words, Superman being able to be on par with the gods does not necessarily have to do with power, but him also being the embodiment of an abstract/idea, enabling him to fight the abstracts/ideas that the gods embody. I'm not going to dwell on an irrelevant point that brought in the disscusion. That's kinda the whole point of the character from his origins there. as a character must have a durabillity at least on the same scale as the one you are using as exemple to survive this scale of destruction. Thank you for letting me know about the little common sense that you have. That's the point. Post-Crisis/New 52 is not star level in power. So....one year instead of five? Skip the rest of this answer if you can’t be bothered with crazy talk. The burden of proof is on your side; provide the evidences for you claims, no to mention that Grant Morrison did not wrote Hypertime as the center of the Multiverse, as debunked in my previous post: Last time I request you to provide evidences for you claims that you are unable to provide. The fact is Darkseid was stilll hunting Kayio across the Multiverse following his fight agaisnt the JL. However, I know already that such characters tier can not solely be based on their last resort ability to cause x scale level of destruction by dying or others means affecting them, any herald would grind dorkseid into paste. This power, which a… So, it is very wrong to claim:" we can't just assume those stories are 100% applicable now", since Hypertime will have a direct influence on the experiences of the characters from the main continuity. Who said it was? Anti-Monitor had the edge over Darkseid in their encounter by having the Anti-Life Equation, which he used to summoned Black Racer agaisnt Darkseid, leading to Darkseid death which caused ripple across creation. Then you need to listen better, because, in this interview, Grant Morrison made clear that the timelines of Hypertime are "lines, each of represented different universes, meaning different comic books that contradicted one another", mentionning Frank Miller Dark Night as an exemple of these contradictory comics that exist nevertheless with the main continuity in Hypertime. It's only considered as such by some because N52 Mobius has next to nothing to scale from apart from the Darkseid fight. I will address your point about Thor in conjunction with the Hulk's point. Try to stay in line of the disscusion. The only low showing of New 52 Darkseid that I think of is his encounter agaisnt Batman, but that's the only low showing that you can use as a support. Are you implying that both characters must have the set of powers to be on the same tier? It's a relatively recent concept that doesn't really remain consistent either etc. @applekidthethird: how is darkseid not multiversa. I see you are moving the goalpost by first asking the scale of "Creation" in the context of Darkseid's death, then saying that it is a hyperbole. Born the illegitimate daughter to King Viktor of Markovia, her half-brother is Geo-Force. Terra is a super-hero with the power of geo-kinesis. I agree to disagree about Superman. I recall Kyle's RT on him a while back which went through his fights in considerable detail. And very bad comparaison as well, since, as already mentionned, it it was re-used in New 52 in his encounter agaisnt Phantom Stranger, It does agaisnt characters being embodiment of an abstract. Dessad usurping Darkseid was not meant to explain that all Darkseid's apparences are Dessad, but that, in some encounters, it is not Darkseid they are believing to fight. True Darkseid from Final Crisis probably is, but more so due to his overwhelming size and mass. I. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/terrax-vs-darkseid-378071/?page=3#js-message-24199847. Even some of the guys who massively defended Darkseid back in the day wouldn't agree with that. Also agaisnt Anti-Monitor, which was a fair fight. He is one of the former Heralds of Galactus and introduced in Fantastic Four #211. It does not mean that it is not an element part of the character, especially since it is an re-used element when Superman fought Phantom Stranger in New 52. I don't know how is this relevant to the Dessad retcon. On the side of Darkseid, it should not be forgotten that the authors introduced avatars or Dessad usurping him to explain his inconsistencies. And very bad comparaison as well, since, as already mentionned, it it was re-used in New 52 in his encounter agaisnt Phantom Stranger, well after it was introduced in Adventure of Superman #54 and his fight agaisnt the god Osiris in Adventure of Superman #689. Predator is the embodiment of love, but street tiers have hurt it. Like yea, darkseid beats terrax. He one-shot Alan Scott with the multiversal green, tanked hits from the multiversal green, red, grey, and clear, he survived a boomtube explosion that had universal space-time aftershock, he has destroyed entire universes before, matched the multiverse class Anti-Monitor, and can match powerhouses like Superman if he desires to. I wasn't even talking specifically about Darkseid. Terrax has yet to put forth any feats that make him stronger than galaxy. Now it is more clearer, yes the difference in abilities will determine how a character would win agaisnt another character, but it does not mean, using your exemple, that Wonder Woman, Shazam and Superman can not be in the same tier, e.g planet tier. Not so, there's a good few you can use. Many writers consider Shazam to be in Supermans tier, does he has same striking or durability? How it has anything to do with the disscusion that Darkseid has avatars. This doesn't have much to do with anything related to his actual combat effectiveness. New 52 Darkseid ecounters were agaisnt the JL, in which he did not show any sign of weakning after this encouter based on the following scan. Being a "embodiment" means little to nothing. Doctor fate is universal and he still loses to darkseid sometimes. Well first, with out past finally set, myriad new futures are opening up. @kuuzo: How can you scale from one new god to another? Don't see how it has anything to do with my reply, but I see that you are still keep avoiding requests to provide evidences for you claims. You can knock out Darkseid. I'm just saying we can't just assume those stories are 100% applicable now. He used her to infiltrate the Teen Titans, where she developed a relationship with Beast Boy, and ultimately died betraying them. New 52 Darkseid ecounters were agaisnt the JL, in which he did not show any sign of weakning after this encouter based on the following scan. As Flash explained, the experiences of DC's characters and of their alternative versions in Hypertime will be shared. Creation" ranges in scale from the Bleed, based on the Map of the Multiverse, to all DC cosmology. While Post-Crisis is slightly above Superman I would say which would put him at planet level. I don't see any part where he states that "all DC publications are revelant" or to that effect. It is even a point showing the differences between Grant Morrison's hypertime and Scott Snyder's hypertime? 1 Biography 2 Powers and Abilities 3 Gallery 4 Trivia 5 Navigation The character first appears as an alien named Tyros, the ruler of … I wouldn't even say he is at universal, but this isn't him so.. @byondeon: True Darkseid from Final Crisis is, thats only based on power implied. In Rebirth, if I recall. Darkseid even his avatar is universal or multi universal Hands down. Unable to stay at home, she became a mercenary and began working with Deathstroke. It matters, its not just about having different powers its about having gear and abilities that give them edge over other characters. Did you read the RT on him that goes over the low showings anyway? In your point, you compare two opposite extremes oof which the lowest can be adjusted up to star systems tier, based on the fact that Mantris, able to shatter star systems, was introduced in Jack Kirby New Gods writing as being close to Darkseid. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features I can't escape the wrath of a mad god", and showing that Darkseid fought against other versions of Superman during his hunt following his fight agaisnt the JL. Both look alike and are jobbers, but Darkseid should stomp just as easily as Thanos did above. I choose the second option. The New God I don’t see why Darkseid doesn’t have the advantage, @tifalockhart: well terraxs “sword” can cut through parents and manipulate matter, he has a chance. And quite frankly I don't take uncited material seriously. Grant Morrison only took Darkseid's avatars on a other level, retconing all his past apparences. I don't see any part where he states that "all DC publications are revelant" or to that effect. @byondeon: Is the axe able to cause universal scale damage, if not, then how it would even brother New 52 Darkseid who resisted damage of such scale in his fight agaisnt the JL, when Cyborg bfr'd him to Apokolips? IIRC this doesn't explain away a vast majority of low showings. Still looking for or you can not even respect your own standard? Darkseid didn't have the avatar concept etc. Elaine Belloc stated that the scale of power of the gods is far too great for there to be no consequences (comparing such consequences to Mansions of the Silence destruction because of Lucifer mere presence) , as "the Universe is an ant" once one reaches godhood. However, there is no evidence that the after-effect across Creation is because of an assumed collision between Death Racer and Darkseid, as you baselessly claim, I’m so lost, there is so many scans, darksied wins but it won’t be a curbstomp, terrax is very powerful, at least compared to the avatar darkseid, This is basically a guy with a sword versus a guy with a gun. Not only is Darkseid consistently shown to be below Star level as he match Superman on every occasion. Boomstick: For most people, the universe is the place to … He's not Monarch where he's a ticking time bomb. You are just saying DC do take elements from past continuities. At least he has a consistent basis. Darkseid summoned Racer first, AM turned him against Seid by using the N52 ALE to defeat him. So you still faill to show how Hypertime underwent changes from writer to writer. How DC mangage their canon > your DC canon. Snyder uses the same, but doesn't obviously quote Morrison word for word. Learn all about Terrax both on screen and in comics! You starting point was that such elements/ideas were, roughly speaking, restricted to just "the arc of a story". Darkseid still wins. He had since John Byrne take on New Gods. FATE Silver Surfer VS A.M.A.Z.O Black Bolt VS MARTIAN THE MAN HUNTER Onslaught VS DOOMSDAY Dark Phoenix VS SUPERMAN PRIME Mr. Sinister VS LEX LUTHOR Thanos VS DARKSEID Galactus VS SPECTRE Apocalypse VS BLACK ADAM Sabretooth VS SOLOMON GRUNDY Terrax VS … So, your exemple show how you do not understand as the point, as it is a matter of resistance of the character rather than having to do with what he embodies, but Batman shotting Darkseid with a radion bullet is a matter of abstract/idea, as the radion bullet is the concept of a bullet. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. The fact that he uses the same terminology? That was another throwaway retcon that didn't go well with other writers and was basically ignored. While Post-Crisis is slightly above Superman I would say which would put him at planet level. Dessad usurping Darkseid was not meant to explain that all Darkseid's apparences are Dessad, https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/terrax-vs-darkseid-378071/?page=3#js-message-24200575, Key words you missed in your reading: "All". Darkseid is not even close to even star system in powers.. Their strength might be in same tier as its implied on panel to be matched. Anyway If you consider Darkseid to be multiversal then I cant really debate that. Darkseid was imprisonned in the Source Wall in New Gods 1995 #10, until he was released in Jack Kirby's Fourth World #18.
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